Thinking Godspousery is For You? Read This.

It has come to my attention that there are certain individuals who seem to believe that coercing a deity into a spousal relationship (assuming it’s even possible) is a good idea. One such individual posted at The Cauldron forum today, bemoaning the fact that they “want Loki to love [them]”, were “looking up new rituals I could use to try to marry Loki and become a godspouse” and  that they were “overcome with jealousy” because they had read about another person’s detailed experiences with Loki.

I did write my own response to this, but TC member Darkhawk said it with way more eloquence than I ever could, so I am posting the entire response here (with permission):

Okay, first thing: back the everliving fuck up and get a grip. You sound like a teenager who wants to know what spells to use to get Tom Cruise to marry her (because hey, isn’t he single now?).

Once you’ve started to get your shit together, actually think about this. You want to have an intimate, mutually entwined relationship with a god. Do you actually have anything to offer that god? Because those kinds of relationships are fucking hard work, and if all you have to offer a god is desperation, you’re not worth marrying. At most, you’re a one-use bit of disposable tool, assuming that you can be aimed in a useful direction before you flame out. To those gods with a more malicious side – and Loki is certainly one of those, at times – you’re just begging to be used as a no-conditions chew toy, in that “It may be your purpose in life is to serve as an example for others” kind of way.

The northern Powers value strength, integrity, and competence. Stuff like this is not going to impress anyone. You’re doing the spiritual equivalent of covering the altar with filthy kleenex here, which is neither hospitable nor impressive. If you want a relationship like that, stop weeping and throwing your frailty at your god’s feet, stand up, and act like someone who might be worth having. Sobbing, writhing would-be consorts are useless, and very few gods will waste time on things that serve no function.

Before you go exploding in seething jealousy over people who have something you think you want, do some reading about what they have to do to hold up their end of the deal. Some people have to do the nun thing and remain celibate. Some have to do extensive, constant ritual work. Some are heavily hemmed in by taboos and will become sick if they disobey. There are codes of conduct, obligations of service, and other things that just come along with that particular gig like acorns come along with oak trees. They are not optional extras.

And no god is going to really put you in a position where you are signed up for those duties and obligations unless you’ve demonstrated that you have a capacity for doing them – that is, except if you’re being set up to fail. If you can’t do the work, you can’t get the job for real. Which means you’re better served getting over your desire and doing whatever self-work it will take to get yourself into a place where you can do whatever work your god will set you without crashing and burning. If you enter into an intimate devotional relationship with a god, it will not be about what you want, it will be about what furthers the work of that god and pleases him. What you want may be taken into consideration, but it will not be the top priority on the list.

Do your devotions. Dedicate yourself if you feel the need, though I would not recommend doing so while you’re doing the “I am obsessed with this movie star” thing. But – if you want some kind of reciprocal relationship – act like someone with something to contribute. One thing I know from people who deal with Loki on a regular basis: he won’t tolerate you lying to yourself.


Link to post is here:

I don’t think anything more needs to be said, honestly.

20 thoughts on “Thinking Godspousery is For You? Read This.

  1. I absolutely loved this post. I was tempted to say, “What is it about paganism that attracts delusional people?” but then I remembered certain members of more mainstream religions…..

  2. Dear gods, THIS. Please let Darkhawk know that s/he has said what I’ve long wanted to say, but couldn’t find a way to express without copious use of the F-bomb and some teeth-grinding.

  3. Reblogged this on Rock of Eye and commented:
    I don’t think applies only to godspouses, but to anyone who wants deity involvement in their life. It amuses me that it mentions Lokeans, as it seems like people who work with/for Loki are coming out of the woodwork since that movie came out..

  4. Y’know, so many people feel isolated and alone in this day and age, completely cut off from the land and gods. I’d rather have people get overexcited in believing something that most would regard impossible than have them mock the possibility. We’re all clueless greenhorns in the beginning. It’s nice to see someone with divine yearning, however ardent it might be. XD

    • My problem wasn’t that she was enthusiastic about Loki, it was that she is talking about coercing him into marrying her. If a person does that to someone else, we call that a shotgun wedding. There’s a good reason few will perform love spells to make someone love another person. It’s taking away that person’s ability to choose whether they want to form a relationship, it’s just….wrong….not to mention creepy.

      There’s nothing wrong with loving a deity, but when someone starts talking about forcing the deity to love them, yeah, I’d say there’s a problem. I’d much rather have people who were devoted to a deity without resorting to creepy stalker-ish language to describe their relationship.

      • Awww. That’s true. She just seems like a very airheaded but well-meaning person, like she thinks the gods are Pokemon. I guess I see it from the perspective that Loki is an extremely powerful god dude who can’t be forced into a marriage, but then again, if she got him drunk off libations, it might be possible. He has done weirder things before.

        And yeah, it is kind of really stalkerish. I would be creeped out but kind of flattered if I was a god, which I can’t really imagine, because I’m a teenage chick. The only situation I can think of that is similar is unwanted male attention. But if I were Loki, I would think it was hilarious, and perhaps troll her.

  5. I raise a toast. I work with my Bear Goddess, I got picked – like the quiet kid before High School Dodge-ball. Some of us don’t get to pick, and from there there is devotion, struggle, frustration, shaking your fists at the sky in anger…. Then illumination after sticking with it. It isn’t easy, it sure as FUCK ain’t fair… Whining will make the Bear Mother leave you in the river to struggle… If that makes any sense.

    Thanks for posting – it’s refreshing, and…. DAMN true.

  6. As for gods only loving us cuz we’re “tools” for some divine purpose, we have to remember what gods are here for in the first place. To help us. And they have feelings too. Maybe some lonely god will scoop her up, lol.

  7. Kudos to Darkhawk for giving this person such a thorough, well-worded and wise reply. Wow, I really, really hope whoever posted this was 14…

  8. What about a deity coercing a human into being a god-spouse? Or a god-slave? (even creepier) Would that be ethical?
    I don’t get the whole god-spouse thing anyway- but it mostly seems to be a Norse thing. By the way, is there evidence of this being a historic practice? Nothing wrong with creating modern practices, so long as one is honest as to their origins. If it is more of a modern thing, it adds to my suspicion that there are some people that just want to be extra-special. (not all necessarily but some)
    Also makes me think of how Catholic nuns are called “Brides of Christ” which I always thought was bizarre given their sexual status.

    • Not being a godspouse or a godslave myself, I don’t think this is a question I can answer without missing a lot of the nuances, but I will try.

      Deities are different from humans, sometimes they forget that humans have certain ways of doing things that just aren’t really that important to the deity. I would definitely give the Grumpy Lokean Elder’s post on abuse in a godspouse relationship here:

      I also echo his advice: if you wouldn’t tolerate that sort of behaviour from a mortal spouse, you certainly shouldn’t with your divine spouse.

      Now, having said that, I should note that godspouses are really not as common as you would think they are, and godslaves much less so, but the internet has a tendency to inflate numbers, and yes, there are unfortunately folks who like to claim they are spouses because they think it makes them seem more legit.

      As for the historicity of the practice, IIRC, there is a reference to a priestess of Freyr being referred to as his “wife”. In Vodou, there is maryaj lwa, where someone is married to one of the spirits (this carries with it certain obligations, like not having sex on that spirit’s special day). You can also marry multiple lwa, if memory serves me, this is to prevent jealousy between two spirits who are usually in opposition to each other for whatever reason. I’m not that familiar with spousal relationships since that isn’t the sort of relationship I have with my deities, and I’m not a Vodouissant so I have a limited understanding of their traditions.

      I would say what is considered “creepy” in a deity-human relationship is a matter of taste. The godslaves I’ve known through the Internet are well-adjusted, thoughtful, in fact, the only difference between them and any other person who has a relationship with a deity is the sort of relationship that they have. If it’s an arrangement that works for all parties involved, I don’t see a problem with it, it’s none of my concern. Now, if there is a problem, then it’s up to the parties involved to negotiate, just like in mortal Master/slave relationships and like consensual power exchanges.

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