Apparently some folks (who shall remain nameless) are….a tad butthurt….over something I wrote four months ago.

Seriously, peeps? Let it go.

To the rest of you: haters gonna’ hate. Hopefully I won’t need to start deleting comments, not just because I said I wouldn’t, but because I don’t want to give the impression that I’m suppressing those who disagree with me.

However, this is my space, and I will not tolerate ableism, sexism, racism, homophobia, threats of violence, or any other bullshit. I will not tolerate anyone disrespecting my friends (whether online or off) and I certainly won’t tolerate anyone disrespecting my deities, deities who hang out with my deities, or any other deity. I don’t care if you personally have a problem with who I do or do not honour (and for the record, I AM NOT LOKEAN, READ THE ABOUT SECTION!) but this is MY HALL, AND YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!


*coughs* Thank you for being understanding.


13 thoughts on “PSA

  1. Perhaps they are frustrated Lokeans too afraid of social consequences to iopenly share their love for Flame-hair, and this is the only way they know how to honor Him — by starting drama on someone’s blog. Poor little horn-hatted dears!

    1. That explains a lot!
      It’s okay, everyone, nobody here is going to judge you for loving a god. It is natural and normal. There’s no need to make all this fuss on my blog. It gets better and all that, just sit down and have some cookies.

      1. Seriously, why are they even posting there? What do they hope to accomplish? Are they trying to show themselves in a better light than you’ve portrayed them? FAIL. Are they trying to argue and refute anything you accused them of saying? FAIL. Are they trying to encourage people who disagree with you to come and be welcome among them? FAIL. So apparently their only reason for posting all that crap is to try and intimidate you, and to shout you down without actually, you know, ADDRESSING anything you said. Which, of course, makes it easy to dismiss them as exactly the kind of Heathens who give all the rest a bad name.

  2. >_< Haters gonna hate, waiters gonna wait, gators gonna gait. . .

    This is the internet. It feeds off teh butthurt.

    What is the deal with people flipping out about Loki and Lokeans? I've never worked with Loki, but just reading things about him from his followers, he seems like a god who has a lot of good in him. Maybe a small malicious streak. I'd expect that from a trickster-type god, though. Seems to be part and parcel of working with them.

    1. Well, you see Shine, True Heathens (TM) believe that Loki was outlawed, outlawry is a Very Bad Thing. It’s like going to jail, except when you get out of jail, everyone can kill you. True Heathens (TM) read The Lore (TM) (written by a Christian) and come to the conclusion that everyone hated Loki, there was no cult of Loki (let’s not discuss all the other deities that don’t appear to have cults either) so nobody should be worshiping Loki at all.

      Also, he’s a giant, and everyone knows all giants are destructive unless tamed by a coc–married off to one of the deities everyone likes. Oh, the female giants, anyways, the males are usually just killed.

      (It’s a bit more complicated than that.)

      Oh, and the Gods don’t actually talk to people, no one is important enough to warrant their attention, except royalty, and presidents (who probably don’t worship them anymore) and maybe celebrities like the Kardashians (I think that’s unlikely though) so anyone who claims that Loki talks to them is a lying liar who is lying, because it’s Just Not Done, and That’s Not What the Lore Says.

      By the way, it doesn’t matter if you don’t call yourself a Heathen or claim to be a reconstructionist, they WILL treat you as if you are, because they apparently have a monopoly on the pantheon.

      I think what it really comes down to is just not living and letting live, but apparently someone has it in their heads that Lokeans are “causing Ragnarok” merely by existing.

        1. I think it’s a similar thing, except Sutekh gets that point of reconciliation (’cause Ra is like “You, in my boat, right now”) and nobody’s going to argue that he didn’t have a cult or that Pharaohs weren’t named after him.

          But Loki only really gets that kind of “reconciliation” in folklore (like the Lokka Tattur)–but of course, folklore isn’t reliable, because it’s “too recent” and Christians have pawed all over it with their Christianity. So we have the people who stick with the Lore at all costs, and then we have those who don’t, and, once again, no one can seem to live and let live.

          1. Yup, except some people STILL insist that Set is teh ebil (probably due to later sources that most Recons don’t accept as part of Teh Lore. Gods, some people go psychotic over non-traditional pharaonic sources.) He does have a lot in common with A-pep–more than his fans are willing to admit–but he’s not evil.

            I have no idea what it is with some of the Recon population and the Lore. Beginners, I can understand. I was like that when I first started with Kemeticism. But people who’ve been at it for years? It’s just. . . WAT.

            1. I think it’s a combination of wanting to Get It Right and not understanding that some people don’t want do take that sort of approach. I don’t have a problem with people trying to be as historically accurate as possible, and I don’t know anyone who is interested in making everyone worship Loki or Surtr or whoever. If I have a problem with how someone is doing something I DON’T GO TO THEIR RITES!

              Public events are something else, I won’t go into that, suffice it to say that people who have set up Loki-friendly spaces usually get some strange looks (if they’re allowed to do so in the first place).

              I also think there’s definitely some lore fetishism going on, and this idea that “Heathens have UPG, we just don’t talk about it” (which pretty much amounts to no UPG allowed at all), because it’s all (and always) about how it was done back then. There’s also this huge emphasis on maintaining the proper “worldview” so it’s not enough to read old books, you also need to think like the old folks, otherwise you’re just being a polytheistic Christian, or something. So it’s not so much “ooh, let’s see if we can take this ritual and update it” and more like “okay, in order to do this properly I need to talk like them, walk like them, and have the same crappy attitudes towards women and LGBT+s as them”. Oftentimes, it almost sounds like “believing in the gods really isn’t that important, WORLDVIEW is” (and then I just wonder what’s the point?) Do you have this in Kemeticism? Here, I’ll even quote from one of the hardcore recons favourite sources:

              “Among Heathens you will often hear discussions about Heathenry not being “just a religion.” This comes from the fact that while Heathenry does involve certain religious beliefs and activities, it also involves many cultural elements and values, a significant change in world-view from the mainstream, and for those that fully involve themselves, Heathenry is a way-of-life, and it enriches and informs almost every area of one’s life.

              Heathenry is not a hobby. It is not role-playing. It is not a fantasy. It is not something one only does “on-line.” It is not a once-a-week or only-on-the-holidays activity.

              As one delves fully into Heathenry, it becomes evident that our mainstream culture within which most of us were raised has been heavily influenced and shaped by centuries of Christianity and the foreign cultural values that came along with that conversion. A return to the Ways of our Ancestors involves more than just honoring our Gods, our Ancestors, and the spirits of the land. To truly return, one must learn the cultural values of our Ancestors and begin to see the world, our lives, and our families as our Ancestors saw them. One cannot overstate how difficult it can be to shed the cultural values of the society within which you were raised and to internalize the cultural values of a pre-Christian culture. It is an on-going process that takes years of reading, consideration, and deeds. An on-going process that never truly ends.”

              From here:

              It sounds great, but what it often amounts to is thumping others with the eddas and screaming at them that “they’re doin’ it wrong” (even if, again, they don’t call themselves Heathens) or the aforementioned “Christian in Heathen clothing” thing, and it’s all just kind of silly, because at the end of the day, we aren’t in the 10th century, circumstances have changed, and there are aspects of this “worldview” that just don’t work. I should also note that I’ve only ever seen this sort of thing among American Heathens, I know that in Iceland, Heathenry is associated with the political left, and it seems to be a mixture here in Canada.

              And I just know someone is going to come on here and say “You don’t understand reconstructionism at all. It’s about a worldview, not a religion!” Yes, yes, I’ve heard it a thousand times. Knock it off.

              1. Except “getting it right” is vague, so the rabids have to define it in such strict terms that eventually, spirituality gets choked to death. That’s where the lore-thumping comes in.

                Now, if you don’t want your path to have a lot of woo, this might work. But if you’re into the woo, then there is no “getting it right”. Whether people like woo or not, why should they get to dictate what everyone else does? So Average Lokean wants to worship Loki, Angrboda, Fenrir, and the like. Who gives a leapin’ warship?

                I noticed the weird thing with Heathens and UPG. I understand where they’re coming from, but damn. There’s got to be balance. When you enter a Recon religion, you *do* need to adjust your worldviews; however, you only do as much as makes sense. In Kemeticism, we’ve had better luck with this, because Kemeticism in its “right” form is a state religion. Few people are under the impression that they can somehow magically recreate all the state aspects of Kemeticism. (Our problem is everybody bitches how there’s nothing out there for newbies and then proceed to: whine, yet do nothing about it, therefore contributing to the problem; shoot down anything put out there unless it’s by Person We Think is a Better Kemetic; and stamp out opposing opinions via dog-piling.)

                Asatru/Heathenism/etc are more tribal, so I think there’s a romantic belief that it’s possible to reconstruct everything about the ancient worldview. You’ve got to admire some people’s dedication, but it would be nice if they used their heads more often and left the “unclean unbelievers” alone!

                1. I think a big part of the problem is that we don’t have primary sources written by the people who practiced Heathenry. We have secondhand accounts written by people who were hostile to Heathenry. At least if I’m trying to accurately reconstruct Greek or Egyptian religion, I have a bunch of texts (albeit in translation) that I can look to to help me out a bit. No such luck though, you have to rely on archaeology (which of course, is dependent on interpretation and subject to bias) and then rely on later works to put it into context.

                  Besides those issues, this whole kerfluffle to me sounds a lot like a Kemetic recon telling a Tameran Wiccan (not a recon, obviously) they’re doing it wrong even when the Tameran isn’t calling what they do anything except Tameran Wicca, and I do agree that if they are passing off what they do as :”Ancient Egyptian Religion” then there’s an issue, but really? It’s a case of I do my thing and you do yours. Same pantheon, separate things. And all this stomp stomp stomping is giving me a headache. This isn’t Mario, dammit!

                  1. Kemeticism has different problems in terms of sources. The problem is everyone has interpreted those sources to say kooky New Age crap. There’s so much of it out there a lot of people think ancient Egyptian religion is something it’s not.

                    And, if other people are to be believed, there’s apparently a reading comprehension problem in the Kemetic community at large so that it’s a monstrous task to read things that talk about the actual religion. (Not that I believe this for a minute. Emily Teeter, Erik Hornung, Richard Wilkinson, and many other Egyptologists are not difficult reading. Jan Assman, Al-Sherif Sabban, and Richard Parker. . . well, okay, they’re a brainful, but also not impossible to understand.)

                    Recon communities are messed up, it seems. It’s getting to the point where the important things are getting lost in the arguments.

  3. Temple of Our Heathen Gods isn’t reconstructionist based. And most reconstructionist seem to dislike the author of that quoted material.

    Eventually everyone matures enough in their beliefs that the infighting lessens, and I see more of this happening than the flamewars from a few years ago. A lot of people have really stepped away from the universal worldview mindset recently and have been more faithful to the idea that there are multiple “tribal” expressions of heathenry that don’t need to conform with a grand ideal.

    Or maybe I’m just a glass half-full person?

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